>> Not only what you two describe, but have any of you noticed that programs like PhotoShop have menus that are a different color than the new off-white 8.5 menus? What is does is to create a horizontal banding of white and off-white on menus. Any one notice that? << That one, at least, is easy to explain: they've got their text output set to _srcCopy for black against white when they should be using _srcOr for transparent background. Probably just a leftover from when menus were white so you wouldn't notice one way or the other. It's a useful little thing to keep in mind when you're doing anything of your own that includes text output.