Quote from Forum Archives on March 14, 2009, 4:50 pm

Posted by: prophetic <prophetic@...>

ANDREW STROM's NOTE: Last year I commented that we have
now entered the long-prophesied hour of great 'Shaking' and
massive Reformation in the church. Judgment is beginning at the
house of God - and we are seeing it at the leadership level. Sadly,
I do not believe that Rick Joyner truly comprehends how upset
and angry many Christians are at what has been going on with
the leadership regarding Todd Bentley and Lakeland. As you will
see from the comments (after the article below), many people
are outraged at what is happening. I truly believe that if Rick
Joyner inisists on sticking to his present course, he may bring
his entire ministry down to ruin. Below is his "Response" to Lee
Grady - followed by some comments from readers-

RICK JOYNER’s RESPONSE to LEE GRADY’s COLUMN, “THE
TRAGIC SCANDAL of GREASY GRACE”

(Rick Joyner of Morningstar Ministries sent this response on
March 12, 2009)

Lee, I think what you call "the Lakeland disaster" would be disputed
by multitudes of people who got healed or touched there. If you
are such judge of this what gives you the credentials? What moves
of God have you led? What have you built? Paul the apostle
claimed to have authority for building and for tearing down, but
what gives you authority to tear down the work of others is having
built something yourself.

I, Todd, Bill and Jack all know this is a very serious matter, and
are treating it as such. I am deeply offended that you would call
our work "a travesty." The Lord had far more grace for sinners
than for the self-righteous, who He had no grace for at all. I am
personally far more concerned for you than for Todd.

Lee, I love some of the things you write, but I also feel that some
are straight from the mouth of the accuser. I do think you have
done at least as much damage to the church as Todd's fall has
by your unrighteous and unfair judgments. I don't think you have
earned the credentials for it, and you're putting yourself in far
more jeopardy by trying to be such a self-appointed judge.

I'm quite sure you will misunderstand what I'm saying, and I'm
definitely not implying that we want to cover anything up, or
promote cheap grace. We have just started the process and its
being judged negatively. Give us some time, and some grace.
Grace is, by the way, something we are supposed to be giving
to each other.

If you care to follow this, Todd and I will be doing Video Special
Bulleting each week that will be posted on our website, U-Tube,
and carried by many others. These will be short, like the first, only
about 10 minutes, but we want to cover the mistakes Todd has
made, and as much as we can in the time we have, how he fell
into some of the traps he did, strictly for helping others to not
have to go through what Todd has. He will no doubt be doing a lot
of public apologizing during this time because the public deserves
these apologies.

I think you owe Todd, myself, Bill, and Jack apologies for your
presumptuous judgments. I think they should be as public as this
letter was. If not, I feel that I will have to address this publicly, and
I don't think that is in your best interest.

I also think you need to come down and spend some time with
Todd and me. If you have problems with someone we have Matt.18
as a guide to how we should deal with them. Read the first part of
that chapter. This was given to help protect people from becoming
stumbling blocks, which the Lord made quite clear was something
we do not want to be. If you think being a journalist exempts you
from complying with Scripture, I would like to know what philosophy
you have bought into that trumps Scripture.

Sorry if this comes across as harsh. I don't mean for it too but I
am quite busy and just don't have the time that I would like to
maybe be a bit more tactful. [--Rick Joyner].

COMMENTS FROM READERS (-many were quite angry about
Rick Joyner's letter - but I have tried to choose some of the more
thoughtful replies)-

Inthebeloved said:
"Lee, my hope and prayer is you do not back down from the biblical
stand you have taken concerning this sorry situation.
I read Mr. Joyner's public letter to you this evening and can see
this is exactly what he desires you to do. To be frank, i saw it as
a threatening letter. I know you may be tempted to retract some
of your statements above to keep the peace, but i ask you as a
sister in the Lord, please don't. There are not enough voices out
there today willing to speak the truth, and stand firmly up on it
afterward. The body of Christ needs one at Charisma magazine."

Dee said:
"Rick, I've put a lot of stock in your ministry over the years. Yours
is one I have felt had character and in some ways, perhaps wrongly,
I depended on you and other big names of the prophetic movement.
When my own spirit was troubled watching the Lakeland revival,
I did my best to ignore it because there were so many men with
so much more discernment than myself right there, who actually
knew Todd. This fiasco has caused me to take another look at
the whole charismatic movement and especially the prophetic
one. Like the commenter above, if there was so much prophetic
gifting around Todd why did he get by with this? Are we at a point
that we think gifts are more important than character? Does God
need Todd's ministry regardless of his character? I think he loves
Todd more than that."

Robingael said:
"Years ago I read and ascribed to much of what Rick Joyner wrote
and said. I no longer do, I am older and more mature, and love the
truth more than myself. To be transformed into the image of Christ
is a full time job, not an option. I do not ascribe to RJ's "vision"
of blue and gray, whether he had one or not. Many of us noted
after many hours of reading and researching online during the
Lakeland debacle that 98% of the profanity, threats, and misquotes
from scripture came from the group that was defending TB. There
certainly was a "spirit" operating in Lakeland and it was by no
stretch of the imagination a Godly one. God makes an absolute
guarantee that if we seek truth we will find it..."

Javanut said:
"Lack of credibility...
Dear Joyner,
You sir, are the one who lacks credibility. You stood on stage with
Bentley on June 23rd, 2008 along with other false apostles and
prophets and not one of you had the discernment to see that
Bentley was living in flagrant sin. Drinking excessively in public,
ministering in public with his mistress beside him, telling the world
he was happily married - showing off his wife and kids then dumping
them weeks later. Not ONE of you so-called "apostles" has one
whit of discernment."

NOTE: As I said, a lot of the comments are quite angry. I think
we have seen enough for now! But this is a very serious issue that
clearly has the potential to cause major rifts in the Charismatic
movement. For that reason alone, we cannot afford to simply
ignore it. Here are the links if you want to read Lee Grady's original
article, Joyner's response - or any of the comments that follow them:

www.charismamag.com/index.php/fire-in-my-bones/20005

www.charismamag.com/index.php/component/content/article/20035

God bless you all.