Quote from Forum Archives on January 24, 2011, 5:28 am

Posted by: prophetic <prophetic@...>

NOTE: Sorry to those who are getting this twice. There was a
hickup with the mail server when this was sent the first time. Some
people got it 2 days late. Others likely did not get it at all. Thus
the re-send. My apologies.

PROPHETIC MOVEMENT in AN UPROAR - Please Forward
-Andrew Strom.

Earlier this week we published big chunks of Dennis Cramer's
"Word for 2011" in which he basically tears into a lot of the flakey
and dangerous "New Age"-type practices found in today's
Prophetic movement. Well, to my great amazement, I found that
the Elijah List had actually published Cramer's piece as well! And
it caused such a storm that they had to remove it after just one
day - for "clarification"! But then they re-published it - only slightly
changed!

For those who don't know, the Elijah List is the main email List
for the Prophetic movement - publishing the likes of Todd Bentley,
Patricia King, Rick Joyner, Bob Jones, etc. It also sells mounds
of their books and CD's. For the Elijah List to publish something
that basically refutes all the "Spirit Travel" and "Third Heaven
Visitation" stuff is simply unbelievable. It would almost be like
the Pope refuting the veneration of Mary!

I don't know what the Elijah List was thinking, but I'm sure glad
they did it. Now maybe there's a chance that some of their readers
will get out from under those dangerous deceptions.

But I am left a bit dazed by it all - because the very ones who
have been advocating "spirit travel AT WILL" and "Trance dancing"
and 'Third Heaven visits AT WILL' are the very ministries that the
Elijah List has been promoting all these years!

Here is what the Elijah List founder Steve Schultz wrote after they
pulled the first article when it caused such a storm-
"Dear Elijah List Readers, There was a huge number of people
who were unclear on a few issues with Dennis Cramer’s word...
The most controversial aspect was the “AT WILL” issue. Apparently,
there are some out and about who are teaching that you can
transport or go to Heaven “AT WILL” – i.e. whenever you want. This
is truly not taught in Scripture. The word “Doctrine” is another word
for “teaching.” It’s an untrue teaching that anytime you want, you
can go to Heaven or be transported... As soon as Dennis Cramer
sends us a more in-depth explanation of the items he listed, we
plan to repost my friend’s word."

ANDREW AGAIN: Steve - I'm so glad you wrote this, but do you
truly realize what you are saying? Don't you know that Bob Jones
and Todd Bentley and Patricia King, etc, are the VERY BIGGEST
promoters of all this "AT WILL" deception that you are talking about?
Patricia King even has a whole movement of "Ekstasis" Trance
dancing! These guys have entire reams of teaching on how to
"visualize" your way into the Third Heaven 'AT WILL'. They have
been promoting it for years. Surely you know this? That's why
your readers are so upset. Dennis Cramer is finally exposing and
rebuking this stuff as the 'New Age' heresy that it really is.

On January 15, Elijah List reposted the "re-clarified" word from
Dennis Cramer on their website. It was a little softer in places,
but still it said the following very clearly:
"One cannot go to Heaven like Paul or be transported physically
like Phillip simply because they want to or because they feel like
it (at will). Teachings like this often crossover into dangerous
methods and techniques that resemble New Age, Mysticism,
Spiritism or other occult manipulative practices. A Believer cannot
and must not force, manipulate, or otherwise attempt to reproduce
a sovereign supernatural Bible experience by merely following a
method, a series of steps, or worst of all “willing it” to happen."

In the same re-posted word, Dennis Cramer went on to say-

"• Open Heaven/Spiritual Portals = BAD DOCTRINE
• Third Heaven Experiences At Will = BAD DOCTRINE
• Going to Heaven At Will to Get Your Gifts = BAD DOCTRINE
• Transporting Physically At Will = BAD DOCTRINE
• Over-Emphasis on Angels and Specifically Arc-Angels = BAD DOCTRINE
• Going into Trances At Will = BAD DOCTRINE
• Trance Dancing = BAD DOCTRINE
• Hyper-Grace: Christians Do Not Need to Repent of Sin = BAD DOCTRINE"

Well - there goes the Prophetic movement!!
Seriously - I cannot believe they posted this on the Elijah List!
Steve - This is exactly all the stuff your followers have gotten into!
Most of the guys you promote - these are the exact 'New Age'-type
practices that they teach! Surely you know this?

So now, to finish this article, I need some "clarification" from Steve
Schultz. I am very encouraged by this apparent change of heart,
Steve, but I need to know if you will now CEASE forthwith any and
all publication of the materials and teachings of these people - until
they publicly repent and apologize for this 'New Age' heresy. And
I need to know if you - Steve Schultz - will now publicly renounce
the promotion of these deceptive preachers around the world. (Sorry
to be so blunt about it, but we really need to hear this from you).
I am so glad that you published Cramer's piece. But now we really
need to know where Elijah List stands - and whether things have
truly changed or not. We look forward to your reply.

And I ask everyone reading this to please forward it to your
Charismatic friends. People need to know that this stuff is finally
being declared as "BAD DOCTRINE" - even by the Elijah List itself.
Please let everyone know, so this deception can be stopped. You
would be amazed how widespread it is.

-You can comment on this article at the following website-

www.johnthebaptisttv.com/

God bless you all.

-Andrew Strom.