Re: RE: Mailing List Inactivity
Posted by: sezovr <sezovr@...>
was the first message I got. I can't believe we're still talking about
this. I went back to the archives (go here and use the search bar at the top right to search for D20), and this was all hashed out in detail between 2002 and 2004. Here is the response from the AFC, which I believe I wrote. Nothing has changed. D20 and FUDGE haven't even changed their licenses.
The
math only happens when characters are created, and that is easily
mitigated in this day and age by the use of a spreadsheet on a laptop or
even a mobile device (and the spreadsheet is conveniently provided on
the DragonRaid CDROM, so you don't even have to develop it yourself).
The DragonRaid rulebook is among the thinnest rulebooks I can think of
for the rules of a system for role playing (note that I didn't say RPG:
DragonRaid is an Adventure Learning System, not an RPG). The Success
Grid is one of the easiest to use and fastest game mechanics I can think
of, save perhaps for the old Marvel Super Heroes game that TSR put out
back in the day.
To summarize: playing DragonRaid requires
you to read the thinnest rulebook and to use exactly one chart, with
percentile dice--arguably the easiest game mechanic around (okay, two
charts if you use advanced combat). I'm not sure, Rodney, that you're
representing it correctly.
--Rich
Rodney,
Since you are bringing it up again, I can go over it again.
The main reason that we will not go d20 with DragonRaid is that we do not want nor need permission from a company that produces secular fantasy that many Christians would find disagreeable if not sinful.
AFC will not ask permission of Wizards of the Coast or whoever may own the Open Game License at the time to use d20 game rules. Should Wizards disagree with our theology, where does that leave us?
Note the text below about another matter: once a user publishes material under the OGL, they effectively lose control over it.
This Q&A is from the Wizards of the Coast website at http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/oglfaq/20040123f :
Q: Does this mean that someone could take Open Game Content I wrote and distributed for free, and then put it in a product and sell that product to someone else?
A: Yes.
Q: To be clear: Does this mean that Wizards of the Coast could take Open Game Content I wrote and distributed for free, put it into a Dungeons & Dragons product and make money off it?
A: Yes.
Q: And they wouldn't have to ask my permission or pay me a royalty?
A: No, they would not.
Q: Isn't that pretty unfair?
A: If you don't like the terms of the Open Game License, don't publish Open Game Content. Since the terms of the License are public knowledge, and they apply to everyone equally, including commercial publishers like Wizards of the Coast, your decision to use the Open Game License means that you consent to abide by its terms freely and without coercion. That's about as fair as anything ever gets.
Q: Does Wizards of the Coast get the copyright to my Open Game Content?
A: No, they do not. When you distribute Open Game Content, you must assert a valid copyright either on your own behalf, or on the behalf of whoever does own the valid copyright on the material. You do so by adding your copyright information to the COPYRIGHT NOTICE section of the License when you distribute the License with your Open Game Content.
Wizards of the Coast has to follow the terms of the Open Game License just like anyone else. That means that if they want to use Open Game Content that isn't something they own outright or have a separate agreement with the copyright holder, they'll have to include a copy of the OGL in the work where they've used Open Game Content, they'll have to clearly identify what content is Open Game Content, and they'll have to preserve the COPYRIGHT NOTICE section of the OGL you used when you distributed your work originally. You will retain full copyright to your Open Game Content, regardless of who re-distributes it.
Now, any AM may convert DragonRaid to d20, but only for personal use, they may not distribute it for free or for profit, DR material is copyrighted material. We can distribute it for free if we wish (and we have to special cases) but we are not going to allow Wizards to run with it, though it would be a slim possibility that they would.
A suggestion for those who want to play d20 DragonRaid – character level would work as the d20 rules dictate, but Sword of the Spirit progression with Maturity units would be a separate set of numbers. We can talk about that later.
Rodney, do you seriously believe that we want to keep DragonRaid obscure? Since you cannot read our minds, you have to form your own opinion and I can tell you that you are wrong on this point.
DR will never be as popular as d20, Fudge or the rest that you bring up. Period. It is a niche product that will stay in the Christian subculture because non-believers will never accept it no matter the rules system.
Even just among Christians RPG is a niche hobby. I have talked to plenty of believers that play different games and they either don’t like the idea of mixing gaming and discipleship of think its sinful or something.
We are not out to be popular, but we want to reach those who are like-minded, which could be a definition of popular.
That being said, let’s discuss the specifics of the DR rules. You don’t like the math involved in building and maintaining a character. Okay, a simpler system is possible. A single characteristic can be defined by a single die roll. A skill can be related to a single characteristic say, Agility for Bow.
To use a skill, say shooting an arrow at an orc, roll the StarLot and add Bow, or really, Agility. To grow the skill, add a certain amount of Maturity Units per level. All this loses the original intent of showing how a character’s skills and abilities rely more than just one of the Fruit of the Spirit, but it is simpler.
Your comment on not having to use charts in other systems falls a bit flat: character development in d20 is loaded with them. Until one memorizes a half dozen of them, especially on the character classes, (cross-class skills is a bit of a pain as well)referring to charts is part of the game. The character advancement chart is always being looked at, etc.
Joe
From: dragonraid@welovegod.org [mailto:dragonraid@welovegod.org] On Behalf Of Rodney Barnes
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 2:43 PM
To: stephen brown
Cc: Michelle and Brian Gross; J Jackson; Jack Ray; dragonraid@welovegod.org
Subject: Re: [DragonRaid] Mailing List Inactivity
I don't go to the forums, so this is my only source of Dragonraid updated data. I know folks were working on a second edition, but it seems I haven't heard about it in years. Back in 2002 I asked if I could convert it or if they were going to convert it to d20, and got a very nice NO. Seems to me that the Dragonraid committee wants to keep the game obscure. The math detracts from it's bible teaching elements and bogs it down. A simpler game mechanic is needed so the story telling elements become dominate. A lot of development in gaming has occurred since 1980, and DR should take advantage of it. The target audience is not interested in a rules heavy, chart heavy, system that soaks up all the time that could be used for story/teaching. DR could easily be brought up to modern game standards. Re-writing it to be a generic setting for any game system would probably be even more helpful. Then one could use Fate or Savage Worlds or d20 with it so one could spend more time on story/teaching and less time on looking at charts.
Just my 2 cp
Rodney
On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 9:46 AM, stephen brown via dragonraid <dragonraid@welovegod.org> wrote:
I fourth that. I've been reading, but don't have much to say at this point.
From: Michelle and Brian Gross <mbgross@netzero.com>
To: 'J Jackson' <deepsky8@gmail.com>; 'Jack Ray' <jackray2@gmail.com>
Cc: 'Hero' <mizo9999@gmail.com>; 'Joe Revesz' <joerevesz@windstream.net>; dragonraid@welovegod.org
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 11:27 AM
Subject: RE: [DragonRaid] Mailing List Inactivity
Ditto.
From: dragonraid@welovegod.org [mailto:dragonraid@welovegod.org] On Behalf Of J Jackson
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 10:16 AM
To: Jack Ray
Cc: Hero; Joe Revesz; dragonraid@welovegod.org
Subject: Re: [DragonRaid] Mailing List Inactivity
Pretty much the same here.
On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 11:09 AM, Jack Ray <jackray2@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Joe and all
I have been reading the list, but, also, don't have much to say. I have not been to the forums, and probably would miss things, but do what is best for the group.
Jack Ray
On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Hero <mizo9999@gmail.com> wrote:
I am still subscribed and read all the emails and wouldn't see the forum, but I hardly ever have much to say, so if it costs time and money to keep the subscribers getting emails of forum posts I would understand if you dropped the service.
God bless you guys!
On Wednesday, February 18, 2015, Joe Revesz <joerevesz@windstream.net> wrote:
Hello Everyone,
We continue to receive messages from our host that this mailing list is lacking in activity.
I have been considering shutting it down and relying on the forums at http://www.dragonraid.net/forums for mass communication.
Does anyone have any comments or ideas?
Thanks,
Joe Revesz
President, AFC
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