Quote from Forum Archives on October 13, 2001, 6:21 pm

Posted by: lotzakdz <lotzakdz@...>

have you read about the negative issues w/ tofu?

On Sun, 14 Oct 2001 15:32:34 -0700 Debra Garner <dgarnera@pacifier.com>
writes:
> I read this article and I agree with it. The toxins I speak of so
> does he when comments on the big cattle ranchers and the hormones
> and antibiotics they feed
> into them to produce bigger animals. It is wiser to eat meat and
> dairy products from sources you are sure are safe. Organically
> raised, or at least raised
> without hormones and antibiotics. It is more expensive yes, but we
> make it stretch. I just made the most humungas batch of chili it
> ended up being 12 meals
> worth and only 2 lbs of organic beef.
> We were vegan. For over 4 months. I lost almost 50 lbs. But my
> problem lies in self control. And I felt that God was leading me
> back to a diet with meat and
> dairy so that I could learn about self control. It has been a month
> and I have lost almost 10 more lbs. But I buy all of my meat, eggs,
> butter, and cheese
> from the co-op and they are organic. I make them stretch as long as
> I can (using the beef only for chili will make the 6 lbs I got last
> almost 2 months- the
> chili can be used for burritos, over potatoes, with chips). I use
> many meatless meals. We eat tofu once a week. We make our own bread
> from flour we grind
> ourselves etc...
> I like his comment on the herbalist, how the herbalist hadn't had
> homebaked bread in years. That is how it is in so many household,
> vegetarian and meat
> eating alike. They get so busy that they grab fast food, how many
> kids don't eat other fresh fruit than a apple and banana? It happens
> in so many homes.
> So my stance was not to eliminate meat and dairy but to add more
> fiber rich foods to the diet. Many of us here do this already in our
> homemade breads, garden
> full of veggies etc...
> Blessings,debra
>
> lotzakdz@juno.com wrote:
>
> > i do not agree with much of this premise. I presumes that meat and
> dairy
> > are intristically bad, which they are certainly not. This train of
> > thought is derived from the "new age" "easternism" mentality that
> > unfortunately has pervaded modern "health food" thinking and is
> fully
> > supported by the large agri-corp conglomerates because of the heavy
> > profits to be made in value added "health food" products one finds
> at
> > stores such as Whole Foods.We do not need to "flush out" the fats
> from
> > meats if they are healthful meats, and dairy is an excellent
> source of
> > nutrition, especially raw milk and cuiltured products.
> >
> > the following article was just sent by someone to the familycow
> groups
> > and is very good.
> > If anyone wants to know more specifically about "real food" there
> are
> > several excellent resources on my web site.
> >
> > Kathryn in North Garden
> > www.student.pvcc.cc.va.us/~wf3103/fiddle.html
> > "It must be obvious that liberty necessarily means freedom to
> choose
> > foolishly as well as wisely;
> > freedom to choose evil as well as good;freedom to suffer the
> rewards of
> > good judgment, and freedom to suffer the penalties of bad
> judgment. If
> > this is not true, the word ~FREEDOM~ has no meaning."
> >
> > WHAT TO SAY WHEN SOME NUT
> > (RELIGIOUS OR 'SCIENTIFIC' VEGETARIAN)
> > SAYS WE SHOULDN'T EAT MEAT!"
> > by Dick Bauman, Charter Member IMCBS,
> > owner of PRETTY GOOD MINI-HEREFORDS
> >
> >
> > ( My views are not necessarily those of the publishers )
> >
> > Basically, we're simple people. We're simple by choice. I do have a
> > couple college degrees, and was a Doctoral Fellow, and have
> several other
> > certificates stuck away somewhere, but we live simple by choice.
> That's
> > why we have dairy goats for milk (goat milk is more digestable and
> has
> > more nutrients than cows milk), and we raise miniature cattle for
> meat.
> > Our little 65 acre farm has about 40 acres of woods and several
> ponds,
> > which provide proper environment for deer, turkey, small animals,
> and
> > fish (some of which we eat, too.).
> >
> > My wife's garden is too big. It's her choice. The 20 open acres in
> the
> > middle of our property I've divided into five pastures for our
> > mini-herefords takes too much of my time for mowing, checking
> fences, and
> > pulling the water tub (and old bathtub) back into the pasture.
> (Pretty
> > Good Cal, our bull, is totally committed to tipping over the water
> tub
> > and pushing it out of the pasture every time he has finished
> drinking!)
> > It's my choice to live here like this.
> >
> > This is America. Supposedly, we are free to live our lives and use
> our
> > properties as we choose to, as long as we don't interfere with
> someone
> > else's rights. You notice I emphasized the word supposedly. (The
> topic of
> > our supposed freedom is too lengthy to cover at this time.)
> Anyway, when
> > some people start imposing their values on me, I do get upset. I've
> > noticed lately that when a sufficient number of activists start
> shouting
> > the words "you shouldn't", it soon becomes "you can't"! So, when I
> hear
> > some nut voice the words, "you shouldn't eat meat!", I have a few
> words
> > of response.
> >
> > First of all, I can categorize these nuts into two groups:
> scientific
> > vegetarians or religious vegetarians. However, NONE of THEM stand
> up to
> > facts and open-minded reasoning. Also, vegetarians may be "pure"
> (no
> > animal products whatsoever) or be ovo-lacto vegetarian (includes
> milk and
> > eggs in their vegetarian diet.)
> >
> > William Campbell Douglass, M.D. in his book THE MILK OF HUMAN
> KINDNESS IS
> > NOT PASTEURIZED, discusses the many studies of diets of people all
> around
> > the world, including vegetarians. Rampant tooth decay, weakness,
> > breast-fed babies in poor health, Kwashiorkor (protein
> deficiency), and
> > shortened life span are common among strict vegetarians. And a new
> > disease, Ceroid Storage Disease, may soon become an epidemic.
> (Soybean
> > milk and wheat protein cooked in corn or Wesson oil creates a wax
> that
> > plugs the spleen.)
> >
> > Soy milk is also high in an estrogen-type substance. What effect
> does
> > this have on your children? Girls may develop too early, boys
> development
> > is delayed, sterility, and many other problems are surfacing.
> Indeed,
> > giving soy formula to your baby provides the same amount of
> estrogen as
> > five (5!) birth control pills a day!
> >
> > In contrast, groups that were almost totally fish, meat, egg, and
> raw
> > milk eaters had no cholesterol problems, heart disease, high blood
> > pressure, tooth decay, or scurvy.
> >
> > Robert Barefoot, co-author of a book called THE CALCIUM FACTOR,
> (also put
> > out a cassette tape that I have) points out that NO centenarians
> are
> > vegetarians. He not only discusses different native peoples, from
> coast
> > to mountains, and their diets, but how the proper ratio of certain
> > nutrients cured 109 terminal cancer patients, who went on to live
> many
> > years before dying of NO diseases. Among the findings of this
> expert
> > researcher, he noted: (1) NO centenarians are vegetarians, (2)
> > vegetarians die 10 years sooner on the average than those who eat
> meat,
> > (3) we need proteins: animal proteins are the best (meat and milk).
> >
> > A study of 400 centenarians in Colorado discovered: (1) they all
> are in
> > the sun seven hours per day, (2) they all drink milk, (3) they all
> eat
> > some meat, and (4) they all drink 2-3oz. of alcohol per day.
> >
> > He also points out that women that have a tablespoon of animal fat
> per
> > day reduce their chance of breast cancer 100%, and men that have a
> > tablespoon of animal fat per day reduce the incidence of stroke
> 100%.
> > Space and purpose for this article do not permit me to do justice
> to all
> > of Barefoot's findings. I suggest you do further study.
> >
> > Sometimes, vegetarians try to humanize animals by talking about
> "what the
> > animals feel", or "what the animals think". (Anthropomorphize:
> attribute
> > human characteristics.) They might learn from reading THE SECRET
> LIFE OF
> > PLANTS, by Bird and Tompkins. They discuss the feelings and
> communication
> > of plants. Perhaps the vegetarians will think twice about eating
> plants!
> > I shudder to think what these plants "think" when a family of
> vegetarians
> > invade the garden. ["O, No! Here comes the Chubkin family. They're
> always
> > hungry. Quick cover your fruits! Wilt, thou, and look sick. They
> eat
> > three times as much because they aren't satisfied!"] Personally, I
> > believe there is a place for plants and animals in the Divine
> scheme of
> > things and we are to use them in a respectful manner.
> >
> > A person who USED to be a friend of mine is a vegetarian. He
> weighs about
> > 300 pounds (about 150 pounds overweight). He tried to embarrass me
> in
> > front of a group of people: "Dick, everyone should be a
> vegetarian. It's
> > more natural." "Yes," I said, "I've noticed elephants are the
> world's
> > biggest vegetarians. They also have the biggest bellies to process
> it."
> > At which point everyone turned and looked at the size of his
> stomach. I
> > haven't seen him for years.
> >
> > The "religious" vegetarian is one who tries to club you over the
> head
> > with God. Their big whip is to quote from Genesis 1:29: "And God
> said,
> > Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon
> the face
> > of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a
> tree
> > yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat."
> >
> > Yessiree, it does say that in the Good Book. Now, bear in mind
> when He
> > said that, the earth was in a PERFECT state. Soils were PERFECT.
> Minerals
> > were balanced. ALL the minerals - and ALL the trace minerals - in
> PERFECT
> > balance. There was 25% oxygen in the atmosphere (we have about 17%
> now,
> > and diminishing!), and atmospheric pressure 2.2 times what it is
> now!
> > PLUS a firmament composed of a layer of frozen hydrogen that
> filtered out
> > harmful rays. These PERFECT conditions allowed perfect plant
> growth and
> > long life. This is no longer theory. It is provable. (Dr. Carl
> Baugh,
> > Director of the Creation Evidences Museum at Glen Rose, Texas,
> previously
> > a consultant for NASA, puts out a set of tapes that undeniably
> prove
> > scientifically that the Genesis account of Creation is true! He
> proves
> > seven different ways that evolution is wrong, and only the account
> in
> > Genesis is correct.)
> >
> > Now with the flood, and the collapse of the firmament, drastic
> changes
> > took place. Tremendous rains and erosion took away valuable soils
> and
> > balanced minerals. Harmful rays from the sun bombarded plants and
> animals
> > alike. Less and less oxygen and a tremendous decrease in pressure,
> > combined with unbalanced soils, and the loss of the firmament's
> > greenhouse effect resulted in the drastic loss of plant and animal
> forms
> > (dinosaurs, etc.) and the decline of human longevity. Now with this
> > background, we now see the need for a different diet on the menu
> as soon
> > as Noah leaves the ark to venture forth in a remodeled world.
> (Evidently,
> > those vegetarians who still held to Genesis 1:29 missed the boat!)
> >
> > So now we see that about 1655 years AFTER Adam was told to be a
> > vegetarian, God speaks to Noah when the flood was over, and says,
> > (Genesis 9:3) "Every moving thing shall be meat for you; even as
> the
> > green herb have I given you all things." Since that time, then, we
> are
> > omnivores (meat and vegetation eaters). Four thousand three
> hundred years
> > later vegetarians still don't get it.
> >
> > Some years ago I invited a nationally-known herbalist from Utah
> who was
> > giving a lecture in Kansas City to our home for supper. Knowing he
> was
> > primarily vegetarian, but would occasionally eat some fish;
> Barbara fixed
> > home-made bread, baked fish, vegetables and a salad. The herbalist
> ate
> > several slices of warm bread, remarking he hadn't had any for two
> years,
> > and helped himself to a second piece of fish saying "nothing could
> be
> > better than this fish". Knowing he considered himself a devout
> Christian,
> > I set the trap, "Only a good beef steak would be better!"
> >
> > He grabbed the bait. "Oh, no, we shouldn't eat meat!" he gasped.
> >
> > I replied, "If beef is good enough for the Lord, it's good enough
> for
> > me!"
> >
> > He looked at me as if what I said was blasphemy. "Show me in the
> > scriptures."
> >
> > I handed him a Bible, and said, "Open to Genesis chapter 18 and
> read the
> > first verse. He read, "And the Lord appeared unto him (Abraham) in
> the
> > plains of Mamre. . ."
> >
> > "Now read verses 7 and 8," I said. He read, "And Abraham ran unto
> the
> > herd, and fetched a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young
> man;
> > and he hasted to dress it. And he took butter, and milk, and the
> calf
> > which he had dressed, and set it before them (the Lord and two
> angels);
> > and he stood by them under a tree, and they did eat!"
> >
> > "What was that last part, again?" I coaxed, "read it louder." He
> was
> > totally astonished. He stumbled. He halted. And finally slowly
> said "…and
> > they did eat. It says it! I never knew it said it." He stared into
> space.
> >
> >
> > I pointed out to him that in the New Testament Christ used the
> example of
> > the fatted calf as a reward (Luke 15:20-30), and also that it's
> not which
> > goes into the mouth that defiles a man but that which comes out
> from the
> > heart (Matthew 15:11, Mark 7:14-23). And also, that what we eat is
> > sanctified by thanksgiving and prayer (I Timothy 4:1-5). Then he
> asked,
> > "Well, if you like beef better, why didn't you have beef tonight?"
> >
> > I responded: "To eat it in your presence would offend you, or you
> might
> > be tempted, or feel pressured, to eat something YOU feel is
> unclean. As
> > long as you have the Bible in hand, turn to Romans 14:13-15." He
> read:
> > "Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this
> rather,
> > that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his
> brother's
> > way. I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is
> nothing
> > unclean of itself; but to him that esteemeth any thing to be
> unclean, to
> > him it is unclean."
> >
> > Then I added, "You see, because of my belief and understanding,
> I'm able,
> > with a clear conscience, to enjoy eating beef whereas you cannot.
> Now
> > read the first two verses in that chapter." He slowly read, "Him
> that is
> > weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
> For one
> > believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth
> > herbs."
> >
> > Now, this fellow and his wife left us still being friends, howbeit
> he was
> > shaken in his beliefs. I still remember one of his final comments;
> "Well,
> > I suppose beef would be O.K. if we raised it ourselves in a
> wholesome
> > environment without all those hormones, etc." (Isn't that what the
> > miniature cattle breeders are trying to do?)
> >
> > Which brings us to a final point: Vegetarians used to point the
> finger at
> > the meat and milk industry and say, "You have no idea how the
> hormones,
> > cloning, and combining genetics will affect the animal products
> that go
> > into your body!" That's true! And I can add that one industry (on
> TV news
> > a couple days ago) that cloned over 20 animals, just now admitted
> ALL OF
> > THEM DIED PREMATURELY OF UNKNOWN CAUSES! I must also add, GENETIC
> > ALTERATION OF PLANTS WILL BRING UNNATURAL NUTRIENTS TO THE
> DIGESTIVE AND
> > METABOLIC PROCESSES OF OUR BODIES.
> >
> > Canola, (re-named, after Great Britain's bad experience with
> rapeseed
> > oil, Canada oil - CANOLA) is turning out to be a colossal
> nightmare. It
> > has replaced peanut oil, which is high in good arachidonic acid, in
> > peanut better, candies, food mixes, and animal feeds. It is a
> hundred
> > times more toxic than soybeans. These products are linked to blood
> > clumping, baldness, blindness, craziness and death. It was thrown
> out of
> > England and Europe in 1991, but it is a lucrative business in
> America, so
> > it was re-named Can ol a. When rapeseed oil was removed from
> animal feeds
> > in Europe, the viral disease called scrapie disappeared.
> >
> > I suggest you read chapters 25 and 26 of YOUNG AGAIN, by John
> Thomas,
> > Plexus Press, to get more details on what I'm saying. He also
> points out
> > that a derivative of soybean is used to make rotenone, nerve
> poison used
> > on insects and fish, while a derivative of rapeseed is used to make
> > mustard gas used in military warfare. Soy and canola, promoted by
> > anti-meat people, are dangerous!
> >
> > My friends (I hope you're still my friends), I've tried to give
> factual
> > information - including references that the anti-meat contingency
> would
> > have to accept. Scientific, scriptural (not to teach doctrine, but
> > references "religious" people would have to accept), and logical
> > reasoning. I hope this will arm you when that occasion arises that
> some
> > nut says, " You shouldn't eat meat!"
> >
> >
> > On Sun, 14 Oct 2001 12:47:12 -0700 Debra Garner
> <dgarnera@pacifier.com>
> > writes:
> > > All fruits and vegetables have fiber, as well as beans, whole
> grains.
> > > You want your food as close to the natural state as possible.
> Brown
> > > rice is better than white, whole wheat better than white flour
> > > etc... It is best to grind the wheat yourself the stuff on the
> store
> > > shelves are dead nutritionally. Eat most of your veggies and
> fruits
> > > raw, eat way more beans and whole grains than meat and dairy. The
> > > fiber in the
> > > beans and whole grains will flush out the fat from the meat, and
> any
> > > toxins as well.
> > > There must be balance.
> > > Blessing,sdebra
> > >
> > > Vaughnde Edwards wrote:
> > >
> > > > okay I concur with that. Only fiber I know is in bran. Any
> other
> > > fiber I should be aware of? I'm still learning!
> > > >
> > > > Vaughnde Edwards
> > > > Missoula, Montana
> > > > Praise the Lord, He is Risen Indeed!!
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Debra Garner <dgarnera@pacifier.com>
> > > > To: homesteadheaven@weloveGod.org
> > > <homesteadheaven@weloveGod.org>
> > > > Date: Sunday, October 14, 2001 9:36 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [HomeSteadHeaven] help for bug bite
> > > >
> > > > All meat and dairy, but also nuts, seeds, legumes, even
> grains
> > > have protien. Increase your fiber intake. More fiber rich foods
> to
> > > meat and dairy. I think that alot of our diseases come from not
> > > enough fiber in our diet to cleanse our bodies of the fat,
> > > cholesteral and toxins that we take in.
> > > > Blessings,debra
> > > >
> > > > Vaughnde Edwards wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Okay...went back to this message this morning. Decided to
> > > ask...what all contains protein that I should be aware of. I know
> > > red meat has it...we eat little red meat...mostly chicken and
> every
> > > once in a while, pork.
> > > > >
> > > > > Vaughnde Edwards
> > > > > Missoula, Montana
> > > > > Praise the Lord, He is Risen Indeed!!
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Debra Garner <dgarnera@pacifier.com>
> > > > > To: homesteadheaven@weloveGod.org
> > > <homesteadheaven@weloveGod.org>
> > > > > Date: Friday, October 12, 2001 2:43 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [HomeSteadHeaven] help for bug bite
> > > > >
> > > > > Cut down on protien. Too much will leach calcium from
> bones.
> > > Of course they won't tell you that at the dr's!!!
> > > > > Blessings,debra
> > > > >
> > > > > Vaughnde Edwards wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > never heard of kefir. I did find out one thing. Naomi
> > > needs to drink a lot more whole milk! And I have started
> drinkin' at
> > > least one glass a day even though I am lactose intolerant. I've
> got
> > > some form of osteroporosis...some milk and calcium will slow that
> > > down a bit. Arthritis in my spine is rampant thus the back pain
> for
> > > days or at least a weeks worth after doing one day of heavy work
> > > around the house.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Vaughnde Edwards
> > > > > > Missoula, Montana
> > > > > > Praise the Lord, He is Risen Indeed!!
> > > > >
> > > > > --Shortcuts:
> > > > > WANNA READ THE ARCHIVES AND CATCH UP ON WHAT YOU'VE
> BEEN
> > > MISSING??? GO TO:---->
> > > www.welovegod.org/digests/homesteadheaven
> > > > > --->(you will prompted for a userID and Password.....for
> the
> > > userID type in this --->"archives"<--- minus the quotes, and
> leave
> > > the password field empty.
> > > > > --->Shortcut to Our Link Page:
> > > > > www.yahoogroups.com/links/AHomesteadersHeaven/
> > > > > --->Shortcut to Our Member Directory:
> > > > > www.geocities.com/ahomesteadersheaven
> > > > >
> > > > > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to
> > > <homesteadheaven-unsubscribe@weloveGod.org>
> > > >
> > > > --Shortcuts:
> > > > WANNA READ THE ARCHIVES AND CATCH UP ON WHAT YOU'VE BEEN
> > > MISSING??? GO TO:---->
> > > www.welovegod.org/digests/homesteadheaven
> > > > --->(you will prompted for a userID and Password.....for the
> > > userID type in this --->"archives"<--- minus the quotes, and
> leave
> > > the password field empty.
> > > > --->Shortcut to Our Link Page:
> > > > www.yahoogroups.com/links/AHomesteadersHeaven/
> > > > --->Shortcut to Our Member Directory:
> > > > www.geocities.com/ahomesteadersheaven
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to
> > > <homesteadheaven-unsubscribe@weloveGod.org>
> > >
> > >
> > > --Shortcuts:
> > > WANNA READ THE ARCHIVES AND CATCH UP ON WHAT YOU'VE BEEN
> > > MISSING??? GO TO:---->
> > > www.welovegod.org/digests/homesteadheaven
> > > --->(you will prompted for a userID and Password.....for the
> userID
> > > type in this --->"archives"<--- minus the quotes, and leave the
> > > password field empty.
> > > --->Shortcut to Our Link Page:
> > > www.yahoogroups.com/links/AHomesteadersHeaven/
> > > --->Shortcut to Our Member Directory:
> > > www.geocities.com/ahomesteadersheaven
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to
> > > <homesteadheaven-unsubscribe@weloveGod.org>
> > >
> >
> > Kathryn in North Garden
> > "It must be obvious that liberty necessarily means freedom to
> choose
> > foolishly as well as wisely;
> > freedom to choose evil as well as good;freedom to suffer the
> rewards of
> > good judgment, and freedom to suffer the penalties of bad
> judgment. If
> > this is not true, the word ~FREEDOM~ has no meaning."
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> > dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
> >
> > --Shortcuts:
> > WANNA READ THE ARCHIVES AND CATCH UP ON WHAT YOU'VE BEEN
> MISSING??? GO TO:---->
> www.welovegod.org/digests/homesteadheaven
> > --->(you will prompted for a userID and Password.....for the
> userID type in this --->"archives"<--- minus the quotes, and leave
> the password field empty.
> > --->Shortcut to Our Link Page:
> > www.yahoogroups.com/links/AHomesteadersHeaven/
> > --->Shortcut to Our Member Directory:
> > www.geocities.com/ahomesteadersheaven
> >
> > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to
> <homesteadheaven-unsubscribe@weloveGod.org>
>
>
> --Shortcuts:
> WANNA READ THE ARCHIVES AND CATCH UP ON WHAT YOU'VE BEEN
> MISSING??? GO TO:---->
> www.welovegod.org/digests/homesteadheaven
> --->(you will prompted for a userID and Password.....for the userID
> type in this --->"archives"<--- minus the quotes, and leave the
> password field empty.
> --->Shortcut to Our Link Page:
> www.yahoogroups.com/links/AHomesteadersHeaven/
> --->Shortcut to Our Member Directory:
> www.geocities.com/ahomesteadersheaven
>
> To unsubscribe, send ANY message to
> <homesteadheaven-unsubscribe@weloveGod.org>
>

Kathryn in North Garden
"It must be obvious that liberty necessarily means freedom to choose
foolishly as well as wisely;
freedom to choose evil as well as good;freedom to suffer the rewards of
good judgment, and freedom to suffer the penalties of bad judgment. If
this is not true, the word ~FREEDOM~ has no meaning."

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.