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Re[7]: Dead spots
#1 · April 21, 2015, 10:56 am
Posted by: rxdca <rxdca@...>
Sorry, the string tree is over the lower THREE strings, not the lower 4. But it still leaves no room for another.
------ Original Message ------
From: "Douglas Anderson" <rxdca@usa.net>
Sent: 4/21/2015 10:49:16 AM
Subject: Re[6]: [CB] Dead spots
<blockquote class=cite2 cite=em836ce49e-7ea7-4d99-ae77-2ee04a54f4ce@fs-andersond type="cite">
The Fender Active Jazz V has 5 in-line. I've wondered what the effect would be if one of the tuners had been on the other side. So, that's exactly where the Fat Finger ended up, where a tuner would have been on the other side.
The FAJV has a string tree across the 4 lower strings, so I'm not sure where you would add an extra string tree.
------ Original Message ------
From: "STEVE ROLFE" <srolfe@rogers.com>
Sent: 4/21/2015 9:32:23 AM
Subject: Re: Re[4]: [CB] Dead spots
<blockquote class=cite2 cite=244102165.1408228.1429623143435.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com type="cite">
I'm late to this party, but the comments I've read from builders (my favourite source for information about this sort of stuff) point to resonant effects causing the cancellation, and that being the reason that measures like the fat finger and fat head can work, at least to some extent.
Sadowsky says that making his headstocks thicker reduced the severity and number of dead spots he ran into on his basses.
Rick Turner says that carbon fibre reinforcements in the neck can have the same effect.
I've noticed that basses with inline headstocks seem to have more dead spots, and the dead spots are deeper than on basses with tailback headstocks.
This seems to be supported by comments by other builders that C-F reinforcements work best if they run up past the nut, stiffening the transition from the end of the neck to the headstock. Others have also reported similar effects from having a volute.
JohnK on TalkBass drills a divot under the tuning machines on basses that have plate-style tuners, and fills the hole with the tungsten weights used by scouts in Cub Car racing.
John K's theory is that the extra mass inserted at intervals along the headstock breaks up the wave front as it travels up the neck toward the headstock, making it "flap" in sympathy.
It seems to work as well as measures like the fat finger or C clamps, without upsetting the balance of the bass as much.
I've used spring clamps and/or small C clamps as temporary ballast to test this out. Depending where you stick the clamp, you may make the problem better OR worse. Using stick-on wheel weights as the "ballast" under the tuners does not work as well as tungsten, presumably because the weight by volume is lower.
Marc's idea of installing extra string trees and/or moving the existing ones to dampen the dead spot is clever, and the extra downforce on the nut isn't going to hurt your tone, either...
To update: I put the Fat Finger on my Active Jazz V. I played a jazz/pop gig Saturday and couldn't hear a dead spot. There was definitely an improvement when playing through an amp. But when I played in church yesterday, with in-ear monitors, I could still hear it. It isn't as pronounced as it used to be, but it is still there. However, when listening to what was coming through the house I couldn't hear a difference. I guess I'm going to pick up things in the in-ear monitors that others can't hear. So, in all, definitely an improvement.
------ Original Message ------
From: "Sean Baumann" <<a href="mailto:sean.baumann@gmail.com" shape=rect rel=nofollow ymailto="mailto:sean.baumann@gmail.com">sean.baumann@gmail.com>
To: <a href="mailto:churchbass@welovegod.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow ymailto="mailto:churchbass@welovegod.org">churchbass@associate.com
Sent: 4/7/2015 7:44:15 PM
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [CB] Dead spots
Please report back your findings!Regards,
SeanOn Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 4:34 PM, Douglas Anderson <<a href="mailto:rxdca@usa.net" shape=rect rel=nofollow ymailto="mailto:rxdca@usa.net">rxdca@usa.net> wrote:I'm glad it isn't just me. I've ordered a Fatfinger. Cheap enough that it's worth a try.------ Original Message ------From: "Sean Baumann" <<a href="mailto:sean.baumann@gmail.com" shape=rect rel=nofollow ymailto="mailto:sean.baumann@gmail.com">sean.baumann@gmail.com>To: <a href="mailto:churchbass@welovegod.org" shape=rect rel=nofollow ymailto="mailto:churchbass@welovegod.org">churchbass@associate.comSent: 4/7/2015 4:56:13 PMSubject: Re: [CB] Dead spots<blockquote class=yiv1165694318cite cite=http://CAJX8kKep9DwYbhD3r+EmEgeg2x37w8gq-21yX=_ExkugRukCgA@mail.gmail.com type="cite">I've always thought it was sympathetic vibrations in the bass causing those kinds of issues. I've had that issue in inexpensive basses and super high end as well. The Sadowsky I customer ordered had a dead spot on the G. My two MTD 535s had the same dead spot, but they were non-obvious (you had to really listen for it). None of the basses I currently own have any dead spots. I guess I've been lucky.I've heard of some folks using these: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/fender-fatfinger-bass-sustain-enhancer?cntry=us&source=3WWRWXGP&gclid=CMrIw_6J5cQCFZBgfgodeiQAig&kwid=productads-plaid^18283950120-sku^H74357000000000@ADL4MF-adType^PLA-device^c-adid^46504699467I've also heard of some folks upgrading hardware like tuners and bridge to add more mass.Regards,SeanOn Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 6:45 AM, Wulf Forrester-Barker <<a href="mailto:basswulf@gmail.com" shape=rect rel=nofollow ymailto="mailto:basswulf@gmail.com">basswulf@gmail.com> wrote:Douglas <<a href="mailto:rxdca@usa.net" shape=rect rel=nofollow ymailto="mailto:rxdca@usa.net">rxdca@usa.net> wrote:
> It seems like every bass I've ever played, including the three I have now
> (listed below) have dead spots on the D and G strings at frets 5, 6, and 7.
> Is it me? What can be done about it?I've not heard the problem mentioned for ages. Back in the day, I
think the standard prescription was attaching extra weight to the
headstock (either a woodworking clamp or there was some kind of
bespoke brass thing you could buy); as I recall, the theory was that
this affected the physics of mass distribution in the bass and did
away with the problem (perhaps just by shifting it outside of the area
of the neck covered by the frets).I can't say that I've ever particularly noticed it in practise but
clamping some weight to the headstock would be a pretty easy
experiment to try.
Wulf--
Wulf Forrester-Barker
http://blog.webden.org.uk/
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