Some new, some old topics/Spiritual Warfare

#1 · January 31, 2007, 3:16 pm

Quote from Forum Archives on January 31, 2007, 3:16 pm
Posted by: "Zack "BearClaw" Kirback" <"Zack "BearClaw" Kirback" <dragonraid_bearclaw@...>

Kurt, thanks much. I personally like that we have a non-Christian/pagan/whatever that plays DR and is willing to voice that they do and add in their opinions. You see, a long while ago (shortly after I joined this list) the conversation came up about is this game that is just for discipleship or is there more. And I like that though you don't share our faith in Christ that you are not turned off to the avenue that is used to teach said beliefs.

Now I didn't know about the origins of Dwarves and Elves and maybe we should take a step back and look into the origins of them. Like many Christians do about Halloween and Christmas (yep, I know Christians that do not celebrate Christmas at all because of its ties to the winter solistice).

And lastly I am personally interested in how your DR group "handles" that not all are Christians that play. Maybe that will help us all because I have a friend who in many ways
claims to be atheist... but that isn't accurate because he and I have had many conversations on what he believes. He knows that God's real and tries to disprove the Bible to himself... oddly enough so that way he can disprove to himself that God isn't real... which would leave him without someone the he (admittedly) blames for everything wrong in his life.

Kurt McCoy <sheliakbob@yahoo.com> wrote:

As a Sinanist Pagan who happens to like DragonRaid, I really got to say something. "War?" While I respect your beliefs and your right to work toward furthering those beliefs with your brethren, I really must hope that you do realize that whatever you may believe about MY faith, I still have the right to practice it, to receive Constitutional protection for my beliefs, and to seek out the Divine in the manner that calls me, as you feel you have been
Called. I have never lifted a finger to restrict or even belittle your faith. Please keep that in mind. Even if you do believe that I'm an Agent of Diabolical Powers, or some such. And really. "War"? I do, fervently, hope that you perceive this as a War against those entities and powers that you mention and not against the human practitioners of religions and faiths contrary to your own. I am not at War with you. I wish you nothing but peace and happiness, and applaud DragonRaid as an imaginative (and more importantly, fun) tool for presenting and teaching Christian ideals. Ideals that, in many regards, I actually share with you. (in my either "misguided" or Diabolically
Cleverly Inspired sort of way. 🙂

Oh. And my two cents worth--I think I'd avoid using Dwarves and Elves as player characters. Those beings DO have origins in pre-Christian belief systems--and represent supernatural powers in those systems. The very divisiveness of the issue on this list is a
sure indicator of the difficulty many of your target audience would have with the concept. For DragonRaid to be successful in both its recreational and
pedagogical missions, it should be acceptible and "harmless" to as wide a cross-section of Christian beliefs as possible. The goal should be to include as many and exclude as few as possible. Halflings are a somewhat different matter. They're really just congenitally short human beings. As an allegory, they should probably represent innocence and childhood. I'd use Elves as allegories for the hubris of
knowledge and Lore--beings who believe that they are Wise enough to know and practice Truth, without the benefit of the Overlord's teacings--not evil, per se, but blinded by their confidence in their own wisdom. (heck, they'd make great teaching tools for dealing with Non-Christians such as myself--in allegorical form, of course.) Dwarves I'd use in much the same way as their folkloric origins, they are allegories for
greed and the acquisition of material goods for their own sake. Again, not inherently "evil" but so focussed on gaining wealth that they have blinded themselves to the Truth of the Overlord's teachings and need to be led to more correct behavior. They'd be allegories of the driven Yuppies, people who have given their souls to their careers, as it were.

In any regard, my best wishes are with you.

Kurt McCoy

The fish are biting.

Get more visitors on your site using <a href="
http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49679/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php?o=US2140&cmp=Yahoo&ctv=Q107Tagline&s=Y&s2=EM&b=50">Yahoo! Search Marketing.

Posted by: "Zack "BearClaw" Kirback" <"Zack "BearClaw" Kirback" <dragonraid_bearclaw@...>

Kurt, thanks much. I personally like that we have a non-Christian/pagan/whatever that plays DR and is willing to voice that they do and add in their opinions. You see, a long while ago (shortly after I joined this list) the conversation came up about is this game that is just for discipleship or is there more. And I like that though you don't share our faith in Christ that you are not turned off to the avenue that is used to teach said beliefs.

Now I didn't know about the origins of Dwarves and Elves and maybe we should take a step back and look into the origins of them. Like many Christians do about Halloween and Christmas (yep, I know Christians that do not celebrate Christmas at all because of its ties to the winter solistice).

And lastly I am personally interested in how your DR group "handles" that not all are Christians that play. Maybe that will help us all because I have a friend who in many ways
claims to be atheist... but that isn't accurate because he and I have had many conversations on what he believes. He knows that God's real and tries to disprove the Bible to himself... oddly enough so that way he can disprove to himself that God isn't real... which would leave him without someone the he (admittedly) blames for everything wrong in his life.

Kurt McCoy <sheliakbob@yahoo.com> wrote:

As a Sinanist Pagan who happens to like DragonRaid, I really got to say something. "War?" While I respect your beliefs and your right to work toward furthering those beliefs with your brethren, I really must hope that you do realize that whatever you may believe about MY faith, I still have the right to practice it, to receive Constitutional protection for my beliefs, and to seek out the Divine in the manner that calls me, as you feel you have been
Called. I have never lifted a finger to restrict or even belittle your faith. Please keep that in mind. Even if you do believe that I'm an Agent of Diabolical Powers, or some such. And really. "War"? I do, fervently, hope that you perceive this as a War against those entities and powers that you mention and not against the human practitioners of religions and faiths contrary to your own. I am not at War with you. I wish you nothing but peace and happiness, and applaud DragonRaid as an imaginative (and more importantly, fun) tool for presenting and teaching Christian ideals. Ideals that, in many regards, I actually share with you. (in my either "misguided" or Diabolically
Cleverly Inspired sort of way. 🙂

Oh. And my two cents worth--I think I'd avoid using Dwarves and Elves as player characters. Those beings DO have origins in pre-Christian belief systems--and represent supernatural powers in those systems. The very divisiveness of the issue on this list is a
sure indicator of the difficulty many of your target audience would have with the concept. For DragonRaid to be successful in both its recreational and
pedagogical missions, it should be acceptible and "harmless" to as wide a cross-section of Christian beliefs as possible. The goal should be to include as many and exclude as few as possible. Halflings are a somewhat different matter. They're really just congenitally short human beings. As an allegory, they should probably represent innocence and childhood. I'd use Elves as allegories for the hubris of
knowledge and Lore--beings who believe that they are Wise enough to know and practice Truth, without the benefit of the Overlord's teacings--not evil, per se, but blinded by their confidence in their own wisdom. (heck, they'd make great teaching tools for dealing with Non-Christians such as myself--in allegorical form, of course.) Dwarves I'd use in much the same way as their folkloric origins, they are allegories for
greed and the acquisition of material goods for their own sake. Again, not inherently "evil" but so focussed on gaining wealth that they have blinded themselves to the Truth of the Overlord's teachings and need to be led to more correct behavior. They'd be allegories of the driven Yuppies, people who have given their souls to their careers, as it were.

In any regard, my best wishes are with you.

Kurt McCoy

The fish are biting.

Get more visitors on your site using <a href="
http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49679/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php?o=US2140&cmp=Yahoo&ctv=Q107Tagline&s=Y&s2=EM&b=50">Yahoo! Search Marketing.