A Pastor’s Perspective A Pastor’s Perspective

By Pastor Mike Riley
as told to Bob Davies

Rev. Mike Riley is senior pastor of Church of the Open Door inSan Rafael, CA. He and the other pastors provided spiritual oversightfor Love In Action from 1973 until 1994 when Love In Action relocatedto Memphis, TN.

Pastor Mike graduated from Golden Gate Theological Seminary inMill Valley, CA. He began his church through a home Bible study whichtoday has grown to include six Open Door churches in the SanFrancisco Bay Area and one in Arizona. In addition, these churchesare directly involved in missionary efforts in Mexico, London andNorth Wales.

In 1985, Mike talked with former Love In Action staff memberBob Davies about the insights he has gained on the subject of ex-gayministry.

LIA: What was your reaction whenLove In Action came into the church here?

Mike: When [LIA founder and former director]Frank Worthen joined our fellowship, I was working with the collegegroup and Sunday school, so I didn’t have a lot of time to thinkabout it. From the beginning, our church was on the cutting edge ofwhat was happening. We came out of the “Jesus movement” in part, withsome of our leaders coming out of the drug scene through dramaticconversions. Others came from more traditional backgrounds, so therewas an interesting blend of leadership. People coming into the churchoff the streets with strange and difficult problems were not unusual.

So in a way, homosexuality was no big deal because we were dealingwith some really wild situations. We weren’t the nice middle-classchurch where nothing was going on to rock the boat. We were lookingfor nitty- gritty action and we usually found it!

LIA: Did ministry to gays cause problems in thechurch?

Mike: I remember being called in to help with acouple of situations. The pastors had to confront two women who hadbecome sexually involved, and try to decide whether they should leavethe church. One of them was married and we had to worry about herhusband trying to kill somebody.

Another time, a man in the church who had a problem with boys wentto another church one night and tried to seduce one of their kids.

We definitely had problems to deal with, but these were isolatedcases. We learned a lot about who to allow in the church and who wecould deal with. Overall, the church was able to deal with the gayissue really well. There never was any resemblance of an outcry fromthe people- anything that would give us real concern.

Now, it’s second nature to us. New people in the church just haveto adapt to it. Our 12 years of association with LIA has been apositive experience and the church has benefited greatly from theinvolvement.

LIA: How do you inform new people about Love InAction?

Mike: We take the “matter of fact” approach:”This is another thing that we do.” We don’t treat it much differentfrom any of the other ministries we’re involved in, like “warning”them that we have an ex-gay ministry.

Once a year in an evening service, we have “Love In Action Night”,where the church is invited to hear testimonies and find out in moredetail what the ministry is all about. Frank Worthen is also one ofour pastors, so that’s an ongoing witness.

We have many ex-gays in the church who are in key positions, sothere’s a lot of indirect communication going on about what ourattitude is towards those with that background.

LIA: What advice would you give the pastor who isthinking about starting this type of ministry?

Mike: First, don’t assume that every church needsto go out and start an ex-gay ministry. There are areas we haven’tbeen called to minister in. But you need to be open to it if God iscalling you in that direction.

Be open to ex-gay people who come into your church. You shouldhave a desire in your heart to know reasonably well how to ministerto their needs. Perhaps in the beginning, you’ll do it alone. If youfeel the burden is to include your fellowship, then you should beginto share that vision with people close to you, those you haveconfidence in. See if they feel a confirmation.

Eventually, there should be teaching, to lay a foundation forother people. Invite an ex-gay ministry or other pastors with someexperience to come and share, so that the church can question them.This takes the fear and mystery out of it. You need to go slow, atthe pace your church can handle so there’s no bitterness or fear thatwill make people want to leave.

LIA: What about handling the person who comes toyou with the vision for ex-gay ministry?

Mike: I have people all the time coming to mewith visions to start a ministry. Sometimes I agree; other times, Isense this is absolutely not from the Lord. The pastor is the onlyone with a full view of the church. He knows the pocket groups in thechurch-who’s going to react and just what kind of reactions you’regoing to have.

The pastor has to really weigh all of that. It can be frustratingfor the person with the vision to have his pastor want to wait andpray about it, to talk it over with other leadership and get theirfeedback. It may be hard to say “no” to that person, but the pastorhas to be willing to deal with that.

There is also such a thing as homophobia and, with the AIDSepidemic, it can be threatening to people. I don’t take that lightly,but I don’t think we can bury our heads in the sand and ignore theproblem, either. So the pastor has to be willing to die to himself inthese situations-to do what he knows is right before the Lord,regardless of the flack that may come.

LIA: Does the pastor have to share the sameburden for gays?

Mike: The pastor may never get the same burdenthis person has, but it’s important for him to know in his heart thatthis is good, that it’s from the Lord.

He may never be directly involved, but he can help the idea personexpose the church to ex-gay ministry in the right way. The stepswould be similar to the idea originating with him. God would have toshow him the process, because every church is different.

LIA: What if the pastor says a definite “no”?Should the person go to another church?

Mike: That’s a tough question. It’s important todistinguish whether the pastor is responding negatively to this typeof ministry, or whether he’s saying “no” to the timing or thatparticular individual.

I hear ideas that I think are good, but I know the person askingme is not the right individual to do it. If a person has a callingfrom God to do this type of work, and his church is not supportive,then we have to look at the possibility of going elsewhere where theycan do it.

Leaving a church is a touchy thing. I have to deal with that as apastor, and so it’s with fear and trembling that I’d recommendleaving someone else’s church. But I do think there are legitimategrounds for things like that happening. If someone is called to themission field, you have to move on to accomplish that. And ex-gayministry is a type of mission field. The person would have to havepeace in his heart about it, and have really good communication withhis pastor. As much as he is able, he should seek to leave on goodterms.

LIA: How would you describe the church’srelationship to Love In Action?

Mike: LIA is a sister ministry, in a sense. We’reseparate entities, but we’ve kind of grown up together. LIA has beeninvolved for 12 of our 14 years.

The impression I have is that most other ex-gay ministries are notas directly tied in with a local church, but I think there’s a lot ofvalue in it. With Frank as one of our pastors, we have free dialogueand exchange of ideas. We really respect each other’s viewpoints. Weact as a type of spiritual covering for the ministry, and we’re aresource for them in terms of people and prayer.

People from Love In Action become an integral part of thechurch-they’re not just off in a corner talking about homosexuality.They’re brought into a broader spectrum of church life. They getinvolved in teaching Sunday school, drama, music and other things.They have a well-rounded experience, which I think is the best thingto happen to them.

LIA: How would you summarize your experience withLIA?

Mike: I think it’s one of the better thingsthat’s happened in our church. Of all the ministries, it’s probablybrought forth the most fruit for the church. We’ve received from itreally good people in terms of leadership and our music ministry.

God has blessed our willingness to step out into an area that’svery controversial. Because we’ve been willing to adhere to truth,He’s honored that and given us success and good fruit from theseefforts.

It’s added to the character of the church as a whole. I think Godis going to bless a church that’s willing to step out on tough issuesand take a stand for the right way.

Mike Riley has pastored Church of the Open Door in SanRafael since 1972. The church remains a covering for New HopeMinistries, another ex-gay ministry founded and directed by Frank andAnita Worthen. Bob Davies is executive director of ExodusInternational, a coalition of Ex- gay ministries throughout NorthAmerica. He is also coauthor of Coming Out of Homosexuality, IVP1993. Copyright © 1985, 1995 Distributed by Love In Action, P.O.Box 753307, Memphis, TN 38175-3307; 901/542-0250